What is church?

Posted: June 18, 2008 in General Discussion

On another Blog I read, the topic of how church should be got started. This subject is very important to me and other people I know. Some of the arguements that were brought up were things like extra-cirricular(sp)activities vs discipleship, doctrine vs unity, youth groups vs mentoring( this one was not mentioned but I’d like to see it discussed), etc…. So what is your opinion on what church is and how should it be. What is the perfect church to you. I know this can get very contraversial(sp), but that’s ok. Many people (non-church goers too) are very disillusioned with church, how can we help remedy that problem without becoming pragmatic. Like I stated earlier this is a very important topic to me personally so don’t hold back let us know what you think.

 

http://www.oldtruth.com/

Maybe a visit to this web-site will help spark the discussion.

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Comments
  1. george says:

    i find this interesting – i have printed off Josh’s blog entry (original)

    and also Ben’s and will be reading them at my leisure tomorrow

    at first glance – there are several things Ben mentions that i AGREE with

    notice i said Ben, not his entire church – i don’t know them

    i can only go on what Ben has said –

    the comment about churches being pragmatic and results oriented , focusing on baptisms , etc., to the point of selling out the Gospel , HAPPENS alot today in the USA , just look at all the mega churches we have

    i dont think most of us would recognize or want to be part of a genuine new testament church . . .

    where the preachers were beaten , jailed, mocked , threatened with death , POOR, relied on fellow christians for support , NOT SALARIES , or selling books , or TV shows, etc.,

    ALL FOR THE SAKE OF BRINGING GOD GLORY and preaching the Gospel of Christ

    its sickening to see God’s Word treated like a self -help book, to pander to peoples ego’s , and soothe and massage their inner selves , cause MOST christians today don’t know, pretend , or lie to themselves , by claiming that God is their best buddy, and wants us to have our best life now, so we can live ‘a purpose driven life, and be ‘little gods’ to quote kenneth copeland.

    i see it in church , how the world creeps in; parents coddle their children, and try to be their best friends – at church little to none at all discipleship, no discussion of God’s Word, we meet, we greet, we plan pool parties(lets go see our christian brothers and sisters in their bra and panties and underwear !! fun times) and church league softball games, youth trips, youth concerts, we might visit the elderly when forced to, youth mission trips to the BEACH,

    where is the dedication to God’s Word, to study, to discipleship ?

    it doesn’t exist

    my wife and i shared our testimony to each other of how we came to be born again – and thank God , He pricked our hearts and brought us to repentance , i praise Him for that !!

    the other thing we have in common is that we were left alone, after that (she is 44yrs , i am 37 ) new babies in a dangerous world , to guess and flounder , NEITHER OF OUR CHURCHES (hers baptist, mine methodist and then SBC baptist) DISCIPLED US , never NOT ONCE

    however, there was PLENTY of youth events that revolved around us going places and ‘keeping us in church’, whatever that means .

    but real study ? real learning ? memorization ? verse challenges, mentoring ? NEVER

    so here is the challenge to ALL US CHRISTIANS , when we are tired of PLAYING CHURCH and are ready to allow God’s Word to crush us , we will change the things i mentioned

    until then its just status quo – see and been seen , a local social club , that in America we call church

    God loves HIS children , and expects us to OBEY

    Joshua 7:23-26 is pretty plain about the consequences

    i said i would never come back on here , to ARGUE and i have not , argued , i am just stating the truth , what you do with it , is up to you

    and in case you’re little hearts are fluttering over this , by the grace of God , i do what i can for His glory

    i spend my breaks at work, with 5 others christian men discussing and studying the Word of God; i try to personally witness – i can’t wax on and on like some of you can but hey i try my best , mostly by taking men through the LAW and showing them they deserve the WRATH OF GOD but that He has provided a Way , Jesus Christ to be redeemed . . . reconciled to Him

    and then i allow the Holy Spirit to work

  2. george says:

    wow –

    i call us christians on the carpet for continuing the status quo , of AMERICAN CHRISTIANITY – which i stated above

    and two people respond , Bro. Josh and Christine

    Mae agreed with me – to an extent

    Brother Josh – i appreciate your comments; the Holy Spirit nudges me too from time to time –
    i pray i listen

    christine –

    how can i disciple myself , Christine when i was 12 years old when i was born again ?!!!

    do i need to take responsibility , YES and by God’s grace , He has allowed me to learn but its been 95% on my own ,

    i thank God for being able to FINALLY have a church to attend locally (brother Josh’s) that preaches God’s Word –

    LISTEN TO ME –

    i long for a church that is God focused —

    i long to be mentored, even now , as a father of three and 37 years old –

    and where the people desire to know about God and SHOW it by talking about God and His ways, and desiring to study , beyond sunday mornings
    instead of playing church league softball, (our county has mens , womens and i think youth league church softball, basketball, etc.,)

    hey i have an idea ?!!!! lets get together and study on monday nights , etc., WHAT SAY YOU brothers ? oops i forgot thats when we play church league softball, sorry i can’t study the Bible with you , i am too busy hitting home runs .

    get some back bone fellow christians

    but CHRISTIANS TODAY IN AMERICA ARE TOO BUSY WITH LEISURE ACTIVITIES, SPORTS, WORK, and whatever else , so God gets put out of their minds as soon as they leave the church house

    regarding study

    i have a better christian library at HOME than my local county library, and probably most churches (not bragging just TAKING RESPONSIBILITY)

    i read spurgeon, edwards, ji packer, owens, vos, warfield, macarthur, piper, pink, luther, calvin, sproul, augustine, church history, the westminster confession of faith, and mostly try to stay focused on God’s Word first , right now our work group of christian brothers is in the book of Job

    i am trying to learn biblical Greek too , on my own

    so yes, now that its painfully obvious that its ENTIRELY up to me , to learn what i will of God , i do my best to accomplish that

    for God’s Glory –

    you asked what’s wrong with ‘having fun at pool parties ‘? how about lack of modest dress ?

    beach mission trips ? see above

    why do we have to entertain todays youth ? why do they need their own church ? whatever happened to the youth being catechised, taught God’s Word, studying, and serving ?

    careful you may actually stumble on the answer , folks .. . . they learn by example, right ? are the grown ups doing any of that ? NO

    my issue is that the study, discipleship , etc., IS NOT BEING DONE FIRST

    its all about play first , with a few prayer times and jam sessions thrown in for good measure

    there is no effort put into God’s Word

    regarding the quoting preachers , i don’t even know what you’re talking about ? give me an instance , and i will try to answer

    i qouted brother Josh , as i attend his church , is that what you are talking about ?

    this is excruciating –

    WAKE UP brothers and sisters

    question why you do what you do as a christian

    is it tradition ? is it biblical ?

    does it bring God glory?

    YOU HAVE A SOCIAL CLUB NOT A CHURCH IF YOU CANNOT GET THE SAME LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT FOR A ‘FUN ‘ TRIP (BEACH, POOL , PIZZA, CONCERT, RETREAT, ETC,) THAT YOU WOULD FOR A WORKING EVENT LIKE EVANGELISM, WITNESSING, VISITING THE ELDERLY / SHUT-INS , SPECIAL STUDY NIGHT, etc.,

    try to justify it all you want – its da truth

  3. historicprotestant says:

    The three D’s; Discipleship, Doctrine, and Discipline. I’ve yet to discover a church that holds the congregation accountable to biblical discipline for Christ’s sake, His body. To discipline out of love for our brothern, so that we may lead each other back out of sin for the glory of God.

    Compromising ourselves for His glory, instead of compromising biblical discipline for fear of losing a friend who is living in an adulterous relationship or some other sin that leaves the church as a whole very weak at the core.

    I’m not talking about legalism. I’m talking about love for our brothers that gives God glory.

    I desire all three D’s, but I think when you see “Discipline” being carried out among brothers for God’s glory you will find a church that knows doctrine and discipleship, because discipline is the by-product of the others.

    To God be the glory!

  4. lifecypha says:

    I feel church should be a place where the redeemed feel in awe and the lost feel uncomfortable. I would love to step in a church building and know I was walking on holy ground. Most churches to try so hard to not be like “church”. I love the thought of having a church with the big wooden doors, stained glass windows and having a pulpit that sits up high (even higher than the choir loft), no lights except the sunlight bursting through those stained glass windows. WOW, I just got cold chills!!

    Sola Deo Gloria!!

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6528/fund60.htm

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